[Krusader-devel] Implement Krusader Actions public repository

[Alexey Korepov]

Krusader Actions are very useful and powerful functional, but not each user
can understand how to do actions. Krusader have build-in examples - this is
good, but users need to manually type new actions each time. For example,
very popular action is "Copy file as root to other panel".

Will be good to implement public Krusader Actions repository in
krusader.org or maybe in https://store.kde.org/ where users can post his
actions, and interface for easy installing actions from this repository in
Krusader interface, like Dolphin Service Menus:
https://store.kde.org/browse/cat/102/

[Wladimir Palant]

Post by Alexey Korepov
Krusader Actions are very useful and powerful functional, but not each
user can understand how to do actions. Krusader have build-in examples -
this is good, but users need to manually type new actions each time. For
example, very popular action is "Copy file as root to other panel".

Without really commenting on your idea in general, IMHO this particular
example being popular indicates a missing feature in Krusader. For
example, Total Commander detects operations failing due to missing
privileges and offers "Run as administrator" as a choice then. Krusader
could similarly delegate copy and move operations to another process
running via kdesudo - you would have no feedback on the progress then
but that should be ok.

regards
Wladimir

[A. Bikadorov]

Will be good to implement public Krusader Actions repository in krusader.org or maybe in
https://store.kde.org/ where users can post his actions, and interface for easy installing
https://store.kde.org/browse/cat/102/

I didn't think there is the need for that. But now I asked the admins of store.kde.org to
(re-)create a another category for "Krusader User Actions".
I'll let you know when they respond.

Without really commenting on your idea in general, IMHO this particular example being
popular indicates a missing feature in Krusader. For example, Total Commander detects
operations failing due to missing privileges and offers "Run as administrator" as a choice
then. Krusader could similarly delegate copy and move operations to another process
running via kdesudo - you would have no feedback on the progress then but that should be ok.

I don't think there is much benefit if we hard-code this in contrast to a useraction -
other than automatic detection. And this would be much simpler.
E.g. "Copy selected files to other panel as root" can be the command

dbus-launch kioclient copy --noninteractive %aList("Selected")% %oPath%

+ Advanced properties->"Run as different user: root"

Cheers
Alex

[Wladimir Palant]

Post by A. Bikadorov

Without really commenting on your idea in general, IMHO this particular example being
popular indicates a missing feature in Krusader. For example, Total Commander detects
operations failing due to missing privileges and offers "Run as administrator" as a choice
then. Krusader could similarly delegate copy and move operations to another process
running via kdesudo - you would have no feedback on the progress then but that should be ok.

I don't think there is much benefit if we hard-code this in contrast to a useraction -
other than automatic detection. And this would be much simpler.
E.g. "Copy selected files to other panel as root" can be the command

From a purely technical point of view - sure, everything can be
implemented as a user action. Then again, if you look at it from this
angle then all of Krusader's functionality offers little benefit
compared to the plain terminal.

From the usability point of view, the difference is huge. User actions
are very much an expert feature (yes, even more expert than the average
Krusader user): they are not discoverable, they require non-trivial
configuration, and they have to be triggered manually in appropriate
situations. Krusader could handle this situation in a very obvious and
straightforward way instead. Because currently, the more straightforward
solutions to "how do I copy a file to /etc" both have clear disadvantages:

1) Fall back to the terminal and sudo. This works for plain files (e.g.
not archives), and you have to keep in mind that unlike Krusader cp by
default won't preserve modification date. Most importantly, it's
radically different workflow compared to copying a file when you have
sufficient privileges.

2) Run root mode Krusader. Root mode Krusader will have its own set of
preferences which is inconvenient (might be solvable). What's more
important however, this is a very heavy-weight solution for a simple
task. And we probably don't want to encourage people running Krusader in
root mode persistently, it's a footgun.

regards
Wladimir

[Alexey Korepov]

I agree with Wladimir Palant, detecting permission problems and ask to
repeat operations via root (sudo) permissions is very useful idea, but lets
talk about it in another topic, I create
it:https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/krusader-devel/usXkjk0QQH8

In this topic we already recover Krusader User actions public repository,
so next step is create easy install-upgrade interface for user actions in
Krusader interface, like in Dolphin.

среЎа, 22 февраля 2017 г., 11:32:10 UTC+3 пПльзПватель Wladimir Palant

Post by Wladimir Palant

Post by A. Bikadorov

Post by Wladimir Palant
Without really commenting on your idea in general, IMHO this particular

example being

Post by A. Bikadorov

Post by Wladimir Palant
popular indicates a missing feature in Krusader. For example, Total

Commander detects

Post by A. Bikadorov

Post by Wladimir Palant
operations failing due to missing privileges and offers "Run as

administrator" as a choice

Post by A. Bikadorov

Post by Wladimir Palant
then. Krusader could similarly delegate copy and move operations to

another process

Post by A. Bikadorov

Post by Wladimir Palant
running via kdesudo - you would have no feedback on the progress then

but that should be ok.

Post by A. Bikadorov
I don't think there is much benefit if we hard-code this in contrast to

a useraction -

Post by A. Bikadorov
other than automatic detection. And this would be much simpler.
E.g. "Copy selected files to other panel as root" can be the command

From a purely technical point of view - sure, everything can be
implemented as a user action. Then again, if you look at it from this
angle then all of Krusader's functionality offers little benefit
compared to the plain terminal.
From the usability point of view, the difference is huge. User actions
are very much an expert feature (yes, even more expert than the average
Krusader user): they are not discoverable, they require non-trivial
configuration, and they have to be triggered manually in appropriate
situations. Krusader could handle this situation in a very obvious and
straightforward way instead. Because currently, the more straightforward
1) Fall back to the terminal and sudo. This works for plain files (e.g.
not archives), and you have to keep in mind that unlike Krusader cp by
default won't preserve modification date. Most importantly, it's
radically different workflow compared to copying a file when you have
sufficient privileges.
2) Run root mode Krusader. Root mode Krusader will have its own set of
preferences which is inconvenient (might be solvable). What's more
important however, this is a very heavy-weight solution for a simple
task. And we probably don't want to encourage people running Krusader in
root mode persistently, it's a footgun.
regards
Wladimir

[grigoresculiviu]

Agree with AlexB. Krusader code base should be kept at a minimum. If
something makes sense as a user action we should go for it.

Post by Alexey Korepov
Krusader Actions are very useful and powerful functional, but not each
user can understand how to do actions. Krusader have build-in examples -
this is good, but users need to manually type new actions each time. For
example, very popular action is "Copy file as root to other panel".
Will be good to implement public Krusader Actions repository in
krusader.org or maybe in https://store.kde.org/ where users can post his
actions, and interface for easy installing actions from this repository in
https://store.kde.org/browse/cat/102/

[A. Bikadorov]

Post by A. Bikadorov
I didn't think there is the need for that. But now I asked the admins of store.kde.org to
(re-)create a another category for "Krusader User Actions".
I'll let you know when they respond.

We got our old three sections back: https://store.kde.org/browse/cat/370/ord/top/
Looking forward to a lot of new addons.)

Post by A. Bikadorov
Agree with AlexB. Krusader code base should be kept at a minimum. If something makes sense
as a user action we should go for it.
Krusader Actions are very useful and powerful functional, but not each user can
understand how to do actions. Krusader have build-in examples - this is good, but
users need to manually type new actions each time. For example, very popular action is
"Copy file as root to other panel".
Will be good to implement public Krusader Actions repository in krusader.org
<http://krusader.org> or maybe in https://store.kde.org/ where users can post his
actions, and interface for easy installing actions from this repository in Krusader
interface, like Dolphin Service Menus: https://store.kde.org/browse/cat/102/
<https://store.kde.org/browse/cat/102/>
kdialog --yesno "Copy %aCount("Selected")% file(s) to %oPath% ?" && kdesu -c "QT_X11_NO_MITSHM=1 dbus-launch kioclient copy %aList("Selected")% %oPath%"

(without "Advanced Properties->Run as different user: root"!)

Post by A. Bikadorov
QT_X11_NO_MITSHM=1 dbus-launch

is required on my system (Arch) because its running a rootless X-Server. Qt and KDE have
problems with it.

And 'kdesu' is called 'kdesudo' on Ubuntu (see https://phabricator.kde.org/D4645). So
getting a general solution is complicated.

Cheers
Alex